Oh dear....I guess being the only ugly one here in this Village, I feel being left out now! LOL!! :)

Oh well...I guess I should look at the bright side....at least I was admitted here so I get to see what all the hot people look like! ;) LOL!!

Mr. Hook007: I ain't easy being hot! (A)

:)

Sheenie2000: I think you answered my question in saying that your husband's laid back nature complements your detail oriented ways. Those are the types of differences that I was looking for.

Coconutfob: The compatibility issue is my central concern because of the hadith in the journal's intro. I think we are getting closer to a good idea of what we think compatibility is; I would still like to hear what Muslim scholars think the compatibility mentioned by the Prophet (pbuh) actually is.

As for physical attraction being a part of compatibility, that goes without saying for men... (H)

And who is a little pleased with themselves now?!?! One look and you're the one! Must be nice... ;)

Icekool: Did I welcome you back already? No one expresses an opinion quite the way you do... :P

Well cocofob, you are most welcome and I am happy to know that you realize that there is another side to the story also. And yes, all girls should know that if any guy who wants unnecessary dating then he is probably not marriage material guy to begin with.

As for your friend, yes if she wants to stay away from trouble and if I were her friend I would advise her not to date to begin with and certainly not date a pakistani guy because she is hindu. By initiating something with a wrong one should rarely expect righteousness.

Good luck in your search! :)

Mr.hook007: I believe you are still stuck on the whole compatibility aspect of a relationship...if you find a girl who is good to you, has good manners, wants to be a better Muslima and is kind to you and as well to the others...what else do you need? Physical attraction for me is also a must, so if one can have that also...what more can a person ask for?

Icekool: thanx for the brotherly advise; however, things happen?we are human beings after all. I think men are always looking for something better and better to come along. From your answers it?s clearer to me that men have similar frustrations. Last week I told my mum to arrange my marriage as I?m tired of meeting men who want to have a courtship to determine what they want and then there are ones who take one look at me and think I?m the one?so arranged marriage is sounding more the answer for me. I know I have mentioned earlier that?s not a route I will ever consider but after reading all this, that?s the way one should go. No expectations = No frustrations!!!

As for my friend...I do believe in karma?I do hope with this guy?that he gets what he deserves.

Hook, ur right they arent all the same in testing women. I should have thought about my response a little more carefully. But I think every person does test another for marriage purposes. They ask or do things to see what kind of reaction they'll get. Its' just a way to get to know someone.

I'm not sure I understood your question about anything lacking b/w my husband and i that make us compatible. But I think you meant like I'm detail oriented and remember dates and numbers that helps with finances and bills. He's very laid back, jokes around, which relaxes me cuz I have a hard time doing that. In different situations, one of us is more calm depending on what's going on. So there usually is a balance.

I am rather surprised to read all these postings in all honesty. Before I say what I have to, let me say that to me dating is defined as western style dating and not the odd cup of coffee or lunch that you have with someone who you are considering as a potential. Forget the phone calls - I mean they don't even count.

So with that said, I know at least 10 guys currently (including myself) who have never dated (as defined above) full stop, let alone dating a non-muslim girl. And then I have known more men who I don't stay in touch with now as they are married but they never really dated either. All girls that we have known/spoken to are through parents'/friends' references and I would say a few from naseeb.

As for "getting to know" phase, this has been the most frustrating part for all of us men. Its girls, not us, who extend this phase because its them who have the insecurities that oh my God we have to really know this guy before we marry him. Otherwise most of my friends were ready in 2-3 months of knowing the person by finding out the basic things about the girl. The trick is to take a decision before you get emotionally involved with someone and not afterwards (which is what majority of girls do). My friends propose and they get rejected - thats the story of our lives!

No offence, but girls who think all men are like that should stop whining and start thinking of changing the type of company they hang out with. They will start finding the good men because otherwise I too have come across a lot of similar girls (but never associated myself with) who have absolutely no morals or values left in them. So I pick my friends and not vice versa.

PS: Cocofob, why was your Hindu friend dating to begin with? Hindus are pretty conservative too. Point is, if she was dating then she should be surprised she got dumped. I thought it was part of the game. The guy who dumped her, someone will dump him - what goes around comes around. Brotherly advice: change your company!

Coconutfob: I have known people of both genders and various religions to date and marry differently. And even if they don't, people tend to have higher standards when looking for someone to spend the rest of their lives with. It's unfortunate that your friend was hurt in her interaction with this man, but that does not make all Pakistani or Muslim men that way. I too have run into people who thought that their parents would not accept an American or someone not ethnically similar, so I can relate to that type of disappointment. For a discussion on Muslim dating and how best to do that, please take a look at the "Mothers Against Dating" journal or feel free to start another one specifically targeting the issue of people dating people who they know they will not marry.

Lovelyh: Welcome to the fray! I was simply using the brooding as an example; I agree that one person can not be responsible for reconciling all the time. Maybe one being talkative and the other being quiet most of the time is a better example? As far as wanting a perfect wife, I don't share that view. I do want someone who will help me as I try to be a better Muslim and good husband/father, but perfect is not the objective. No one is perfect, so that would be a futile search and anyone selected on that basis is doomed to failure. Someone who wants to be a good Muslima, has good manners, is compatible with me (should we figure out what that means :) ), kind, happy, and willing to put up with me would be just fine. (H)

Icekool: Well welcome back to a non-lurking role then! As for the past of a person, I am more concerned with their present and future. Naive maybe, but that's my perspective.

Sheenie2000: Thanks for providing the married perspective. Are there any things that are absent from you or your husband that you feel make you compatible as well? As for all men being the same in testing women, I'm surprised that you would say that. Is your husband the same as all other guys? If he is an exception, couldn't there be others?

Coco: I agree most men are looking for women at a different set of standards when it comes to choosing a wife. I think its bc getting a wife who's "good" makes up for their awful past, will steer them on the right path, be faithful, AND most importantly be the mother of their future of children. They believe this type of woman is the only woman who can take care of them, and raise their children and take of them properly.
I also think when a girl gets to know a guy, every guy will TEST a girl as to how far she'll go and what she'll do. So girls need to be very careful when getting to know a guy. If you meet a guy a few times in a halal way and talk on the phone every day for a few months, after that both parties should know where it's leading too. If the guy is still dragging his feet or blowing you off, then he's not ready or not interested. So move on to someone who is interested.
I know coco, u asked guys this question, but I doubt they'll be completely honest with you and if they will be, then guys let me know if im incorrect in what im saying above?

When I was single I was thinking about writing a book on all the horror and hilarious stories I have when meeting Muslim guys. some of them are great.

The discussions here are in general and no personal attack on Mr. Hook077 per say. I?m just trying to grasp the whole notion of dating outside of the religion. Where is your compatibility then? Everyone keeps suggesting religion as being the top priority in terms of relationships that must be pursued. Not that I would consider marrying outside of our religion?but to me religion is between Allah and I and no third entity.

Icekool: I have yet to come across a single Pakistani man who hasn?t dated a non-Muslim girl?and I mean a full-fledge Western style dating. My best friend who happens to be of Hindu faith?just got dumped by her boyfriend of 4+ years. This has really upset me and that?s what's triggering all this heat because I have had it. It?s not fair. The guy all along knew he would go back to the Pakiland?bring himself (mother selected) angelic virgin. And please don?t say she should?ve known better or he?s a rare breed?this happens a lot..even to Muslim girls. Do you think I will find answers to this in your book?

Now can you (the GUYS here) tell me how a Muslim man should get to know the girl? What are the limitations and what is the time frame you should give each other? I would love to hear Icekool and Mr. Hook007?s take on this..or any other males involved in this discussion.

Hi just joining in..

I think to be compatible with someone you need to be similar mentaly, religiously and you have to respect each other in all things and that's it. Everything else is just preference and what rocks your boat more than anything else. And it changes with time. Today you might like your language or the foods you eat and so you find someone from your own country to get it but tomorrow you might like something totally different. Today you could be nice and thin and are only attracted to thin men but tomorrow you might gain some weight and it's no longer even an issue. And I think all other compatibility issues can be looked at in similar fashion. In the end, if you respect each other, have a similar level of faith in God and are willing to work on a marriage, then that's all that matters. Compatibility changes with time.

Hook007- I don't know about one person brooding and the other looking to reconcile, it gets really hurtful after a while when you are always the one to try to bring reconciliation. At some point shouldn't the other person have to do the reconciliation? At some point you feel like you are the only one who cares so that's not good either. So maybe you need to really find someone who is similar. At least if you brood they are brooding too. I think that you just have to make a decision in the begining of the relationship that each person has to take turns making up. (Maybe give each other points and add them up for prizes at the end of the year? )

Coconutfob- You are absolutely right and I'll add that it only pertains to their wives. They want absolute perfection in their wives but all other significant other females in their lives can follow a different set of rules. I'm sure that's not all men but I now feel that it's probably a majority of the men feel that way. Makes you really wonder if you can ever find someone you can love and respect without having to fully compromise your whole self in the end.

Sheenie2000- You're right that you have to find someone who is basically compatible with the core values and beliefs you have. If you are too different, you wont' ever see eye to eye and then where would you be? You don't have to be exactly alike but so long as some things are common. And I think that even if it turns out that the guy likes a whole set of things that are different from the girl, at least if they both make an effort to do something that their partner likes, then it makes them happy and vica versa and the relationship stays solid.

Boy, I'm reading my own comments and I think I sound resentful and dissillusioned! I think I'm going to need to work on myself!

Yes please do that cocofob! I will definitely be interested in hearing your input.... :)

By the way....on the side.....and I know this discussion is going on between you and Hook007, but just out of curiosity, why are you so fixated on men who are dating non muslim girls etc. to begin with? I mean would you consider such a man to begin with? Or are you saying its ok for you to consider someone who has dated non muslim girl/s before but so long he marks you at the same standards you are ok marrying him? Personally I wouldn't marry a girl with such a scandalous past, regardless of what her standards are...I mean who cares!

Other than that yes if you want to talk about what men are looking for in general (as well as how realistic today's girls expectations are) and the whys and why nots and the legitimacy and reasonableness of that, then you will have to wait for my book! Haa haa haa......LOL!! :)

PS: Your new picture is nice...which one of the two is you? :)

Icekool I'll sure to give you my feedback. Now back to Mr. Hook007: are you implying these men...or so called Muslim men...only date for the sake of dating? And when it's time to settle down...change your standards? What about other humanly qualities that you must look in a person? I'm sure these non-Muslim girls will be very thrilled to hear...what Muslim men really feel when they are in a courtship with them.

I agree that it is very hard for men to choose a wife with so many options. I think it's hard for women to do it too with the options presented now (even though there is less men). You go on the net and can talk to hundreds of potential candidates. The moment you don't like something one says, you click the X at the top and say NEXT! It's too easy.

As for actually choosing someone, I believe compatibility is important in your core values and beliefs, how you view life, where you want to go in life in respect to family, career, religion, your hopes and dreams. I think these should be in line with the other individual. I dont think you have to have a lot in common with the other person (as in interests). My husband and I dont much in common. I love to read, go out, do nature activitues, he's more of a homebody, likes to watch tv and play video games. It would be nice to have someone who enjoys the same exact things however when I was single, I did those things by myself, so its no big deal to continue doing them by myself after marriage.. Now, though, once in awhile my husband will do things with me just because I enjoy it and vice versa.
The other thing is, when you get married, you merge two lives together, you get so busy and caught up in the daily struggle of life that you dont have time for a lot of things that may have concerned you before marriage. Not only do you have your own problems you add an additional set. (Its not all bad because now you have someone to share them with). A lot of marriage you end up discussing about how to pay a bill, when do schedule a doctor appointment, what time to do something, etc. Some of the little things in life really dont matter or you dont have time to think about it when you have so many other things to do.

Welcome baaaack? I never LEFT buddy! LOL!! :)

As to your question, what compatibility means to me is not what it means to another. There is no one size that fits all. But for me, I am a simple guy who likes to keep things simple in life. If I make it complicated its probably not right for me. So with that said, and without trying to reinvent the wheel, the answer to me is whatever it is in our religion. You once posted what our religion prescribes a man should look for in a potential (and vice versa) in another village.....so I will stick with those basics. For everything else I will have to be tolerant and patient. Thats my approach.

Aisha: I have been putting in late hours lately at work but thats going to end soon so yes lets chat on this soon inshallah! Boy I am getting all excited here! LOL!! :)

Cocofob: Are you saying that this project gets SECOND priority? Hell no man! LOL!! :) j/k....oh well you know what....at least we can get some quotes from you in this book like....as Cocofob from NY states "all muslim men are losers!" LOL!!! :) What do you say huh? Send us those important quotes please..... :) we don't want to miss out on those right? :)

K....I gotta get back to work now :)

Icekool:Welcome back! And good luck with the book.

Have an idea on what makes for compatibility?

Coconutfob: Maybe the men have higher standards for their wives than the people that they date?

My use toothbrushes was not a simile or metaphor, but instead an example of how choosing can be difficult. That does not make women like toothbrushes, but instead seeks to explain the difficulty of selecting something without a concept of what you want/need.

Thanks for the offer Icekool...unfortunately I'm extremely occupied w/ work related classes I'm currently enrolled in. I will however buy the first edition when it's on the market! ;)