I never said he was, but he hung around those circles in the late 90's and that's how I got to know about him. And just because one brings others to Islam doesn't mean jack. I know of many daees who preach by day and sin like anything at night (I'm not saying hamza does this).

Firs of all Hamza Yusuf is not a sufi....and he is not ignorant. Many people have converted becasue of him and none of them are sufi. Like all, most follow a school of thought.

Subhanallah I can't let you post go by without setting things straight.

First, you totally missed my point! Do you think I am happy at the loss of these sites? NO! What I am saying is this, what would you prefer, preserving something, knowing that some people will do shirk because of it or remove that something knowing that by removing it, the shirk will stop? They were removed to prevent people from doing shirk. And throughout Islamic history we find people doing this! So this is not something new.

The Prophet (SAAS) sacrificed and lost so much blood just so that Allah could be worshipped alone. Why can't we do the same?

Second, you said, I dont know if anyone kept up, but just last september they were also going to remove the women prayer area in front of the kabah. Since you are my sister in Islam, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you don't know the truth behind things. You say "they", plural, that's wrong, you should have said "a", singular. I'm not sure who fed you this garbage, but A sheikh proposed not allowing women. His request fell on deaf ears walhumdulillah. It was just one guy who proposed this, not the entire jamaa' of ulema! No further action was taken.

Arguments like this are typical anti-Salafi BS. Sufis use the same tactics as the kuffar. They take an extreme statement from somebody who nobody listens to, blow it out of proportion, then generalize by saying that everybody believes this. The kuffar take terrorist examples and lable us all as terrorists, and the sufis use obscure quotes from solitary sources, inject their own garbage into it, and then generalize by saying all that follow this particular minhaj believe that.

Third, I really hate arguing, but I'm very passionate about topics like these, not because I love saudis (I personally hate them), but because I'm a former sufi who Allah gave hidayyah. I was such a hard core sufi in my late teen years that I was dubbed a sufi monk! People would come (and some still do) and ask me for dua. So as a former insider I know of the ignorance of hamza yusuf, kabbani, suleman nyang, hussein nasr, and others. Believe me, Allah knows the sincerity of what I am saying. All I want is for my Muslim brothers and sisters to worship Allah alone.

Im sorry i just cant accept that--destroying sights and it is not anti-salafi B.S i saw it with my own eyes. Your heart would break if you saw some of the conditions of some things that are still remaining... But thats just my opinion and i dont want to start somthing over it. Hamza Yusuf has his connections there and he were able to see alot of what is not known to the public like quite a few wells the prophet (P) drank from.

As for the Rawdah--your wrong baby J it is closed of to the women. where your sister went is a small bit of corner of the rawdah they open up to the women after fajr. Your lucky if you even get a spot to make sajdah. The women no longer can go to the main area of the Rawdah which is the mimbar, pillars and the the 3 graves. This was closed of just recently...i went in 96 and they atleast allowed women in front of the graves----as i said that is also closed of.

I dont know if anyone kept up, but just last september they were also going to remove the women prayer area in front of the kabah. That was put to halt due to the protest of feminist....they tried to stop then from closing the Rawdah of to women but unfortuantly did not succeed.

The Rawda is VERY much open to the women. My sister went there this past summer and LOVED it Mashallah (she saw Hamza Yusuf at the airport in NY going to saudi too). And about the sites being destroyed, some of those stories are just anti-Salafi BS. And the ones that are true is because sufis take those sites for worship. So what is better, preserve the site while sufis hijack it and do shirk and lead others astray? Or destroy the site so worship belongs Allah alone? It's very sad that some places had to be destroyed, but it was done to prevent shirk from being done.

Khan, you can have a camera--all my group did. Just be sure to leave it somewhere safe during prayer becasue it is forbidden to take the camera inside the mosque. I hear he security is laxed on the mens side but if you do manage to get it in dont be caught with it and never try taking pic in the mosque. What happpens is that sometimes you are out and about and you have to run to the moqque for prayer and dont have time to drop of the camera at the hotel....on womens side they wont even let you go in with shopping bags and mobiles becasue they are afraid you might sneak a camera in. Basically you just cant take a camera inside a mosque.

I have to say the Saudi follow a very strict and rigid school of thought.....unfortunatly when you go there you will notice that most of the historical sights are destroyed or removed completely. They dont allow people to see the sights saying it is shirk....but all thats another story.

The main thing is making umrah and madinah--just be sure to get the benefit of praying in the Rawday behind all the pillers (you should make sure you are well versed in the significance of each piller) Its no longer open to women but the open it up for men 3am in the morning.

Wow, thanks for that info Bushra, because my next stop INSHALLAH is Saudi. I still want to take some pictures of the Islami sites, I wonder if that will too much of a problem.

Yes there is an opinion that picutres in any form are haram. If you ever go to Saudi--be sure not to be seen with a camera. They treat you like a criminal if they see you with one. And yes the main reason they check all the women, body search and look inside your purses is becasue they dont want you to take a camera inside the mosque. One of the girls on my last trip took picture outside the mosque and one of the gurads saw the flash--oh man i thought they were gonna mob the poor girl.

what I don't understand is the Cameraman. Few wedding Videos that I have seen from Peshawar show women dancing to music, they don't allow any men except a non mehrum videotaping their dance. I never get this...


In our weddings in the village or even in Peshawar, Few of my uncles wouldn't allow video camera. Some actually consider it Haram.

Yeah true--alot men just love being around women and love womens tamasha. I like to ask those peeping toms do you ever see a woman come to the mens section--no!!

In our last wedding i dont know how many times we had to ask the men to stand outside--when they supposedly come to pick up their family or drop something of.

yeah, a girls/ladies side really isnt that anymore. Like I see that its not guaranteed it will be only women in the area set aside for them.

same here Alif....When my uncle stormed in they were only playing dulkay (drums) and in a puktun village women never dance in front of men. But these days with all this bollywood/hollywood things are changing fast.

Baby J- thanks for the reminder. I admit i listen to music--its a major weakness for me now--especially pushto music.

Babyj thanks for sharing the Hadiths ,

but weddings in the villages are little different, we don't have the Indian type music or the ones common in the city. Neither do we dance in front of men (that includes brothers and fathers). Women sit in circles with a dof, and they sing traditional songs about bride and groom]. But I must admit that things are gradually changing.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 69, Number 494v:

Narrated Abu 'Amir or Abu Malik Al-Ash'ari:

that he heard the Prophet saying, "From among my followers there
will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse,
the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks and the use
of musical instruments, as lawful. And there will be some people
who will stay near the side of a mountain and in the evening their
shepherd will come to them with their sheep and ask them for
something, but they will say to him, 'Return to us tomorrow.' Allah
will destroy them during the night and will let the mountain fall
on them, and He will transform the rest of them into monkeys and
pigs and they will remain so till the Day of Resurrection."

bushra: Your uncle rocks Mashallah!

at my Tra's wedding, we put on the music as soon as my grandfather would leave to masjid. We women have a lot of fun in our weddings if not bothered by hardcore religious uncles.

This getting mad episode happens in every wedding but usually people end up doing whatever they want to do.

Dumman were actually banned from the entire village for a while, until some of the british visitors decided to break all rules.....

I have this one uncle who forbids music in any form...well one year we decided to sneak in the deck and camera (camera not allowed also) well, someone snitched and he came storming in and started yelling in the middle of the maidan like a mad man. all of sudden we notice the guest all got scared and left.....we go outside and all the flowers of the car had been pulled off...oh man he just lost it. Just casue we played music..and that was that wedding....dare they defy the man again.

He is really good....to bad you already had your wedding..I would have recommended you bring him out...He performed at some my relatives weddings...we got to sit hidely on the roof and watch the tamasha.

great song...cant stop listening to this guy.