JP thanks for the feedback. I am printing out this page and reading it on the plane later today Your comments and Ahmed's are too long for me to read now, but I'm really interested...

Ahmed: Cartoons... I know all of my Naseeb friends in person, so if they have a cartoon pic up, it's OK. Do you get my point? Why dont you put up one?

bonjour Ahmed387!!!

Sophia, Il faut que vous etes avec ou contre. Ce n'est pas possible etre le deux en meme temps !

JP,

I may have mixed Al-Hallaj history with Ibn Arabi in terms of how he died, but still he is the prime exponent of wehdat al-wojood or "unity of being".

I am astonished you quote Wikepdia for Hallaj but not for Ibn Arabi, intellectual honesty would suggest you quote it for both of them.

See en.wikipedia.org

" Some Sunnis reject the notion that Ibn Arabi was a Muslim. Reasons for Ibn Arabi being branded a heretic were some of his statements in his books such as "Fusoos Al-Hikam" and "Al-Ahkaam". One example is where Ibn Arabi said, " ????? ?? ? ???? ??? Al-`Abdu Rabbun Warrabbu `Abdun" meaning The slave (human) is the Lord and the Lord is the slave." Sufis claim that such statements were always considered to be the most elevated exposition of mystical thought in Islam, and therefore unsuitable for the untrained mind. Ibn Arabi has also said, " ???? ?? ?? ?????? ?????? ??? ?? ?????? Al-Rabbu Rabbun Fa in tanazzal, wal abdu abdun fa in tarakka" (Lord is Lord however low He comes down and a slave is a slave however high in status he goes up). This clearly shows that he accepted the existence of creations."

"He also wrote in Al-Fusoos al-Hikam (1/95): "So the person with complete
>understanding is he who sees every object of worship to be a manifestation of
>the truth contained therein, for which it is worshipped. Therefore, they call
>it a god, along with its particular name, whether it is a rock, or a tree, or
>an animal, or a person, or a star, or an angel."

This is an arabic link on Ibn Arabi, for those who understand Arabic.
www.alsoufia.com %20page_title=%D8%B3%D9%8A%D8%B1%20 %D9%88%D8%AA%D8%B1%D8%A7%D8%AC%D9%8 5& book_link=False

Sophia, this is for you about the allegories of the wine and the cup in sufi poetry:

Frequently the Sufi poets use worldly imagery to describe their mystical experiences. Hafiz talks of visiting the wine seller to become inebriated with the overflowing cup of wine.

?Look! There is wine in the glass eye of the Winebringer That intoxicates reason and leaves you with a hangover of happiness!?

Here the wine refers to the nectar of divine ecstasy. The wine seller is the Giver of Divine Grace. Madness is merely a reference to the inner ecstasy of communion with God. It is delightful paradox that the Sufi?s use worldly imagery to describe that, which is beyond the world.

The Sufi masters believed that outer religious forms were useless, unless they inspired the inner devotion. Poetry was their tool to poke fun at the pompous and arrogant. They took great delight in exposing hypocrisy, pride and vanity.

?O hypocrite, you are so perfect, why do you criticize the lover of wine? Don?t worry, the sins of others, won?t count against you in the Good deed book of God.?

Their poetry is also a reflection of their unconventional, direct approach to God. The poems of many Sufi?s follow no obvious course. They have not been planned by a thinking mind; they flit effortlessly from one subject to another. We not do feel we are reading about a personality of say Hafiz or Rumi. We feel we are reading only about an inebriate devotee of God. The opinions of the world leave no effect on the poet who has transcended the norms and conventions of society. The poetry is a living expression of the timeless nature of the mystic. It comes from the source of all inspiration and requires no explanation to expand upon it.

Sophia,

You have very strict rules :) what's wrong with cartoons ? you an make an exception, can't you ?

Ahmed

Salaams,

It was not Ibn Arabi you are thinking about, but Al Hallaj who said in a moment of ectasy "Ana al-Haqq " or I am the Truth or I am God. He got killed for it by the religious authorities of the time. See en.wikipedia.org

Sorry, however it is important to have the right information before making any statement and call it "background knowledge."

For info on Ibn Arabi please see : www.ibnarabisociety.org

Muhyiddin Ibn 'Arabi 1165 -1240AD

Mystic, philosopher, poet, sage, Muhammad b. 'Ali Ibn 'Arabi is one of the world's great spiritual teachers. Known as Muhyiddin (the Revivifier of Religion) and the Shaykh al-Akbar (the Greatest Master), he was born in 1165 AD into the Moorish culture of Andalusian Spain, the centre of an extraordinary flourishing and cross-fertilization of Jewish, Christian and Islamic thought, through which the major scientific and philosophical works of antiquity were transmitted to Northern Europe. Ibn 'Arabi's spiritual attainments were evident from an early age, and he was renowned for his great visionary capacity as well as being a superlative teacher. He travelled extensively in the Islamic world and died in Damascus in 1240 AD.

He wrote over 350 works including the Fus?s al-Hikam, an exposition of the inner meaning of the wisdom of the prophets in the Judaic/ Christian/ Islamic line, and the Fut?h?t al-Makkiyya, a vast encyclopaedia of spiritual knowledge which unites and distinguishes the three strands of tradition, reason and mystical insight. In his Diw?n and Tarjum?n al-Ashw?q he also wrote some of the finest poetry in the Arabic language. These extensive writings provide a beautiful exposition of the Unity of Being, the single and indivisible reality which simultaneously transcends and is manifested in all the images of the world. Ibn 'Arabi shows how Man, in perfection, is the complete image of this reality and how those who truly know their essential self, know God.

Firmly rooted in the Quran, his work is universal, accepting that each person has a unique path to the truth, which unites all paths in itself. He has profoundly influenced the development of Islam since his time, as well as significant aspects of the philosophy and literature of the West. His wisdom has much to offer us in the modern world in terms of understanding what it means to be human.

As Salaam Aleykum

Salik

Sorry, my french is not very good... anyway I am not astonished about Suphis having no problem with wine. After all, some of them think that they can do anything that is forbidden by Islam and it is OK, for they think they have already passed all barriers, and they are unaccountable for their deeds.

As for Ibn Arabi, was he not executed by the authorities in his time for straying from Islam. Isn't he the one who considered that GOD is everywhere even ..., and he said his blasphemous saying that I would refrain from repeating. Just a background knowledge for those who do not know who Ibn Arabi is.

Sophia, I tried to comment on your journal about culture, but unfortunately I could not. It seems I cannot do so because we are not connected.

Jean Pierre: Merci pour l explication.
Je comprends la m?taphore, par contre, je trouve ?a un peu paradoxal: the wine pourer... en Islam. OK, Je conc?de, avant l Islam, le vin, l'Art, la po?sie etaient indissociable pour les Perses... Mais comment la m?taphore a-t-elle travers? les "barri?res" de l'Islam...
Faire l'apologie d'une image dont la base nous est interdite...
Je dis pas que je suis contre! Mais je trouve ?a interessant...

Bienvenue aussi Sophia

Etant un lecteur de Ibn Arabi et ayant tout le respect pour son enseignement, lui le grand maitre du Soufisme qui rencontra Roumi dans ses voyages, je ne fus pas surpris d'apprendre qu'Abdel Kader etait aussi un etudiant dans une des ecoles spirituelles ou lignees qui descendaient de Ibn Arabi.

Ibn Arabi est fameux au Maroc aussi car il y enseigna a Fez et voyagea jusqu'a Marrakech.

Aussi deux des grand maitres spirituels de Ibn Arabi etaient des femmes dont Fatima de Cordova.
www.sufism.org

ok girl...bienvenue... on organise une rencontre en Avril le 27

Desole de vous mettre l'explication en Anglais. Mais enfin voila, merci pour la question Sophiaz et bravo pour etre courageuse. J'aime les questions.

Je vais passer par Paris fin Aout / debut septembre pour voir mes petits enfants.

Jean-Pierre

===============


The Word Saki:

The Persian word s?q? (also written as saqi or saki) literally means wine-server or wine-pourer and is frequently used in Persian poetry to describe the glorious Server who continually pours out the wine everlasting to all of mankind, while implying that only a completely empty bowl is truly ready to be filled with such a fine wine. For the Sufi, the greatest task of life is to become empty enough, selfless enough, to be a suitable receptacle for the wine which the S?q? pours.

In some cases, the word s?q? may be used as a reference to a specific spiritual teacher, but in the grand scheme of things, a spiritual teacher is merely a worldly symbol for the presence of the Beloved, the One and Only One.

Some say that in order to be grammatically correct, the title should have been written as "The Bowl of the S?q?," but frankly that title is rather clumsy and lacks poetry... so, perhaps the present title The Bowl of Saki was never intended to be grammatically correct, but may instead be a playful bit of British humor that intertwines the mystical Persian imagery with the thought of the oriental rice wine that has a similar sounding name. It is doubtful that we will ever know exactly how the book title The Bowl of Saki was created, but really the more important matter is to understand the deep significance of the word s?q? and of the bowl, which might also be called a cup, or chalice.

Usage of the Word Saki:

Here are some examples of how Pir-o-Murshid Inayat Khan used the word s?q? in his teaching:

(note: the spelling saki has been changed to s?q?, except for references specifically to The Bowl of Saki, which have been left with that archaic spelling for historical reasons.)


What makes the soul of the poet dance? Music. What makes the painter paint beautiful pictures, the musician sing beautiful songs? It is the inspiration that beauty gives. Therefore the Sufi has called this beauty s?q? , the divine Giver who gives the wine of life to all.

tenez moi au courant pour votre mini meeting :) Je vous rejoindrai!

je les cherche toujours...lol..

hey tu viens a Paris right?? On va tous se rencontrer ...y aura Ms aussi

oh j'avais oubli? de mentionner Cnazia. Sophiaz, hehehee voila Aouichab. Elle m'a entendu...:D
Alors ma grande! Ou sont pass?s nos villagois ???

Il y aussi Cnazia...mais les uatres dorment...on les cherche encore.

Lynfasi , attention je suis la!!!! alors je dors???

Je crois que JP est l'auteur/editeur de la Coupe de Saki...Il est peut etre dans le coin.

Ms, est tres adorable. Par contre, il aime les chocolats et ne les partage pas toujours *:. Il fait comme moi Lol ;) oops ! refer to JE: Good mood 4 food :P

Salut Lynfasi
Merci de l accueil chaleureux!!!
C'est qui JP et Ms?

Salut Sophiaz. T'es la bienvenue...heheee c'est Aouichab qui dort parfois :(....JP, Ms et moi nous sommes eveilles...Je compte sur Aouichab pour reveiller son village...(H) ;) moi, moi, moi! hahaa...